Permaculture response task force

Discussion in 'News from around the damp planet' started by Janet Millington, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. Janet Millington

    Janet Millington Junior Member

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    :nod:Hi All,
    We have watched with horror the devastation caused by the rains from Cairns to Tasmania and I know as permies we knew it was coming and we have tried to be prepared both as individuals and communities. We also know that it will happen more regularly and more severely in the coming years.
    I believe, as you do, that Permaculture has much to contribute. I am also concerned that the less favoured of Holmgren's future Scenarios may well be played out in the recovery phase. (Brown tech solutions).
    The response in the crisis phase has been exceptionally good but I am concerned that in the rebuild other forces may come into play from the development lobby and political groups choosing popular solutions.
    I think as we build our National Permaculture Body that one of its first actions should be to draw up a task force that is named, has vision and goals, is made up of permies who understand and have demonstrated ability in all facets of the recovery and redesign of communities, water, transport, food distribution etc etc.
    This taskforce could form a set of principles or guidelines that any solutions can be measured against. This can be used at local, state and national levels....can be put forward by any permie in any community at any level with the confidence that the principles have been designed by good permaculture practitioners, have been discussed in many permaculture circles and are clear and concise and user friendly by those who are preparing to reconstruct and become prepared.
    Those who are actually affected now are too busy to think into the future, but those of us who have come through this one OK may want to ensure our voices are heard in future planning. We can only do that as a national body with real credibility. I hope we can bring in all high profile permies, permies with on ground and demonstrated successes and all those with credentials which could get us into places of decision making who aren't PDC holders but who respect our design science.
    This has been a real disaster but it is also a very real opportunity to have influence where once we were ignored.
    Regards
    Janet
     
  2. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    Hello Janet, I have no idea who you are and i note this is your first post but suspect others must know of your for you to be addressing the forum in this way.

    Nevertheless, i would like to make a small point or two.

    1. I live slightly north of Cairns and have noticed that the bad weather has had next to no impact on us up here. In fact, i could have happily enjoyed more of it. I am not even aware of anything considered disasterous north of Rockhampton. Have i missed something? Its possible as i don't watch the news every night. I hardly think a person dying in a flooded stream in Mareeba could be considered in the same breath as all the rest of the disasters recently. That could happen any year, the person was advised not to go swimming and it was entirely for recreation purposes.

    2. I would like to suggest that something that is considered in this program you propose is the disposal of waste during the cleanup. It looks like brisbane people are having a massive spring clean now and all of it is going to go straight to landfill. A lot of that stuff would very likely be suitable for reuse and recycling by others. Given the overwhelming focus on safety and health concerns these days, you can bet that there is no chance that anyone can scavenge any of that junk. And none of it is likely to be made available for resale either. Now i consider that a huge wasted opportunity (no pun intended). And its bad for sustainability. I am really quite pissed off with the way councils now handle waste disposal from the community. They charge to collect it, they charge you when you take it to the dump yourself, they won't let anyone in to scavenge and they take it all far away by truck to either send to a recycling plant or to sell to someone else. All of that means that poorer people in the community do not have access to cheaper cast offs. Hobart has the right idea with its onsite and independently run tip shops where stuff is sold pretty darn cheap. So can you please encourage councils not to use our garbage as a means of increasing revenue when we have already paid through the nose to dispose of it. And can you encourage them to minimise the cartage of waste.

    Organisations across the country should be encouraged to dispose of waste in the most sustainable ways. Each Suburb could have garden mulch and other organic materials dumps that anyone can deliver to and pickup from. Not including food scraps. Newspapers, instead of getting their unsold papers transported back to the factory for recycling and reprinting should be given to or sold at cost to gardeners for mulching their gardens. There are so many examples of this type that it drives me nuts to think about it. If the community got more organised we could save so much space in landfill. So much petrol on needless transportation costs. And poorer people at the very least could access things they can't otherwise afford. The rich gardeners could still buy their pretty square pieces of woodchip while us poor people would love to be able to access rough garden waste from nearby. I would really like to organise something like this in my own suburb but I am still a little afraid of getting invovled in setting up something like that when i have so much to do here. All it would take would be a letter box drop to everyhouse in the neihgbourhood and I know i could do that as our suburb is veyr small. I'd be thrilled to take anyone old newspapers and garden waste or encourage the exchange of it between neighbours here.

    You might consider this idea as something to incorporate in your program.
     
  3. Janet Millington

    Janet Millington Junior Member

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    Response to sun burn

    Thanks for your comments and I agree that waste is a huge factor in this national disaster and in general day to day living and indeed someone/or people with waste management expertise need to be on the task force. I am working in Cairns currently and agree there has been worse there. Yes I am talking about a weather event that has done far more damage than a single drowning in Mareeba. Right down the east coast of Australia there has been 1/100 and 1/200 rain events that have killed at least 18 with 30 still missing. The disaster is still unfolding in Victoria and Tasmania. I think it is not only the scale of the event but the extent of it that is so significant and the fact that the same thing is happening on 3 other continents that make me think that it is a sign of changing patterns that we need to be prepared for.
    So I am hoping that Permaculture trained people can get together in local areas to advise householders and councils as well as have a group available to advise state and federal governments of solutions that we know work in different climates and in various extremes. Your passion for waste and ensuring equity in access to all will be valuable to your local community. I hope you are able to link with your local Permaculture Group up there in Far North QLD.
    Regards
    Janet
     
  4. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

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    Janet
    Janet I respect you and your work,the permaculture network north of Brisbane is a dynamic and fruitful.You are obviously well aware of the hugely dysfunctional dynamics that abound in Australian permaculture.So many cliques,so many personalities.Of course there is a pressing need for a National body.
    It has always been my belief that already qualified,local government officers civil engineers,architects,agricultural manages,town planners,land managers and all other associated professionals are the ones that should be targeted for permaculture education.They would then have the ability to apply the whole system thinking to already established discipline.You could then be sure that these already qualified professionals who create and enact policy,could use the design science to expand their own skill-set.For example a teacher,writing a book to influence the uptake of school gardens.

    I am sorry, but I would not waste my time working with what would amount to a never ending talk fest as each group sought to imprint it's own agenda onto any "white paper" that was been developed.
    I know this is a highly cynical view but if you can cast your mind back to some of the convergences and ask yourself what really ever has been achieved ?
    You would need high levels of trust,shared values and common goals and a real willingness to achieve.If this has not been the case for 30 years, I hardly see how after one disaster that it will suddenly materialize,as much as I hate to say it Australian permaculture is an unqualified mess.
    I would suggest to you that you gather those fine women up on the Sunshine Coast and it's surrounds and build on your already mighty talent base to create one hell of a permaculture network that is so nebulous and connected that you set an example for all other bio regions in Australia to follow.
    The powers that be need a map to spot x,they need to know what the journey will look like and what is waiting for them at the end.
    I don't think we have time to waste on the petty squabbles ,the personalities and the host of woo woos that abound.
    It's my honest opinion that the your region is possibly the only region in Australia that has the necessary conditions both in human resource,previous demonstrated ability and connectedness to pull this off.The schools network is amazing so you have one sector well on the way,capture the "grey army" and then force the middle into action.
    The rest of them are a Dads Army compared to what your networks have to offer.
    If other suitably qualified people you know and respect can be brought in then I would suggest you do that.I just can't see you finding consensus amongst a howling group of professional workshopers who will ultimately say a lot and do a little.
    Best Wishes
    Fernando.
     
  5. grassroots

    grassroots Junior Member

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    Hi Janet, this might be a dumb answer.
    Isn't this what Transition Towns is all about?
     
  6. permup

    permup Junior Member

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    Fernando, I'm afraid I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    Janet, it's all very well to call for an organised approach, and leadership, but unless you are prepared to be the one to put your hand up to be that leader (and all that that entails), then I think you can call forever and nothing will happen. The Permaculture concept is a great one - and I am as devoted to it as the next Permie, but for the most part, we are a disorganised bunch, and standing on the sidelines wanting something to happen is fruitless. I, like most people, would be very happy to contribute any ideas and knowledge I have to a well-organised project, but I'm not prepared to manage it. Are you?
     
  7. Janet Millington

    Janet Millington Junior Member

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    Hi Fernando,
    Thanks for your answer and I do share your concern and pain and if you know me you know I don't give up easily. I am aware of factions but they are more like a family having frank and honest discussions rather than a power play that many perceive. So I do have hope as I know the quality and integrity of so many students and colleagues. Our region is by no means outstanding in its permaculture achievements and everywhere I look I see permies all doing great things at all levels.

    What we haven't had to this point is the number of activists, proven benefits to the environment and communities over decades combined with a communication mechanism that can have us all talking at all levels. When we can do that much of the mistrust and suspicion will fade into a flood of support, trust and action. We have a spectacular generation of young permies who don't take on the old guard factions and don't accept a movement dominated by personalities. they want action and they get on and get things done.
    Conferences and convergences are beginning to look like the family Christmas where we love to get together and then air and vent a bit and I don't think that would happen if we had a way of sorting things out between gatherings. You will find that those who get on with action don't have time to participate in the "squabbles" and those who have proven and demonstrated success don't bother either. Perhaps because there are different approches much of this perceived "infighting" is just that....people making assumptions that because they work differently, prefer to work with some people above others, work in different areas or on different issues, that they must disagree....I just don't see it that way so I can hold hope. Thanks for your kind words and I hope things unfold that give you hope because from what I see Permaculture is our greatest hope and the only hope for many species.
    regards
    Janet
     
  8. Janet Millington

    Janet Millington Junior Member

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    Not dumb...absolutely spot on. Transition is permaculture in action at the community level. Having woked in Transition for a while I do know hat Transition without permaculture is not as effective as it is with permaculture. permaculture has the skills and knowledge to create the transition. Transition Groups with lots of permies or as part of a permaculture group do better than Transition Groups without that skills base. Of course there will be exceptions....but as a general rule.

    Transition is a great way to effect change with those who have not yet come to permaculture and is a natural step for many Climate Change groups, as has happened in Brisbane. I am watching with interest to see how transition suburbs in Brisbane do in the recovery. West End, badly affected, has a very strong group and very charismatic and genuine leaders there.
    Thanks for your comment.
    Janet
     
  9. Janet Millington

    Janet Millington Junior Member

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    Here is one example of local leadership that should be available to everyone. This arrived today from Dick Copeman of Northey St City Farm and is positive information from a Permaculture perspective.
    I think he would be happy for me to copy it to this site.
    While out helping clean up after the flood in West End and other nearby suburbs of Brisbane, I had a number of discussions about what to do to resuscitate gardens that had been flooded.
    See why I have hope?

    Ideas that came up included:
    § Hose mud off plant leaves
    § Scrape mud off lawns to expose lawn leaves to sun, then hose mud off top layer of lawn leaves
    § Don't throw mud out with rubbish. It is full of nutrients and can be quite beneficial to the garden.

    § As long as vegetation is poking through the mud, leave the mud layer in place and treat the garden as below to improve drainage and minimise risks from contaminants such as harmful bacteria, pesticides, other chemicals and heavy metals.

    § Drain away any pooled water.



    § Aerate gardens that are waterlogged by poking a fork into the ground and wiggling it back and forth a couple of times. Repeat every 10cms or so.

    § Test pH of mud and if it is acidic, apply lime to gardens

    § Spread sand from sandbags over the mud on gardens and lawns

    § Spread mulch, if available, over the mud (and sand) layer

    § If deep layers of mud have had to be scraped off gardens, lawns and hard surfaces, compost the mud by mixing it with layers of prunings, green waste, lawn clippings, food scraps, etc., in piles of about a cubic metre in size. Cover the pile with black plastic and let it sit for three months. Even better, turn the pile regularly and it will compost more quickly.

    § Wear gloves and boots when handling flood mud and wash and shower well when finished

    § Don't harvest leafy greens, and other vegies that are eaten raw, from flood affected gardens, until they have had a week of sun and then a couple of decent rainfalls on them. Even then, wash produce very well.



    Remember that most productive farm land is on flood plains because of the rich silt that is deposited there in floods. So make the most of what nature has brought you.
     
  10. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    hmmmmm, I don't see anything wrong with Janet's ideas... what am i missing ?

    I thought the concept of permaculture centred around supporting sustainable communities.... in the micro and macro environment ?
     
  11. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Janet is a recently ex - Sunshine Coast Permie of much renown. She moved to Cairns last year. She's a contributor to the PRI Blog and a published author of Permaculture books, and a teacher. See here
    I have heard Janet speak at Permaculture Noosa meetings (but she won't be able to figure out who I am from my username!).
    So she is well placed to make suggestions, and has close ties with lots of people in flood affected areas. And she could probably manage to head up a Permaculture project like this (with one hand tied behind her back!).
    The Qld Govt is going to hold an enquiry to run over the next year. I wonder whether there will be the scope for local Permculture Groups in the affected regions to make submissions about how to reduce the impact of flooding, or how to recover more quickly. It seems like the perfect window of opportunity to get sensible solutions on the agenda. The state and local governments will at least be paying attention for a little while before they try to forget that it every happened.
    And I want to say how much I love Bob Brown for saying that the mines need to accept partial responsibility for the flooding due to their contribution to climate change!
     
  12. Janet Millington

    Janet Millington Junior Member

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    Hi Paula,
    Yes I would be prepared to manage it ...at my local level and have begun to do just that. At the national level I am happy to facilitate a process and to defer to great minds and more experience. I have seen the work of the people I would invite onto the task force and it is outstanding. I have learned my skills at the local level and have been working with my community for years and they are straight onto it here. I am then going back up to Cairns to run a Time for an Oil Change course that will lead to an Energy Descent Action Plan for Cairns and part of that is identifying the vulnerabilities and offering srategies and action from the community.
    In the Permaculture movement there is a need to show inclusivity and I think that me driving the whole thing could polarise some rather that getting them on board. I have had favourable responses from several people who offer their support and a couple of people whom I would want to see on the task force have also expressed interest. So for now I am acting locally and trying to begin a process nationally. Until we get a national permaculture body that is difficult.
    Thanks for offering support once the thing is organised. It may take a while but it is a serious process but one once done will be easy to continue and replicate in the future.
    Best regards
    Janet
     
  13. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    I love Bob Brown too but i find that utterly ridiculous. I have never ever heard Bob Brown say anything ridiculous but now i have. These floods are not due to climate change they are due to the La Nina weather event which is the normal part of the weather cycle. Just because it is the worst one does not mean it is caused by the mines. I am really disappointed that he said that.

    Thanks eco for explaining who janet is. Janet as a newbie to cairns, you probably don't realise that this is a pretty mild year so far in terms of wet weather for Cairns. I mean we have actually seen the sun during the day and there have actually been days that is has not rained at all. I suggest this is not the norm but you could check that against your long term cairns resident friends and acquaintances. I am waiting with baited breath to see if February is going to be the big wet month this year but normally i thought it was January. So far we have not had that much rain up here as far as I am aware. We haven't even had a cyclone threat and I am wondering what's going on. So many were predicted.

    I am not an expert but some of those ideas in that list don't sound right. Aerating a waterlogged garden by poking a fork in it is not going to work. The holes will just fill up with water. The garden needs to be drained. If you want to drain a garden, dig a channel so that it can drain off faster.

    I wonder why it is a good idea to throw all that sand on gardens. Surely there are many better, less wasteful ideas - give it to me for a start. Is sand good for a garden? I need a lot of sand for my house building. So i suggest send the sand back to the landscape suppliers and builders so that they don't have to go and mine more of the stuff. Or give it to people who can do with it what it is meant to be used for. Don't just throw it around.

    Sounds like you want to bury all the gardens and lawns with mud and sand and mulch. Won't that just kill the lawn that you've just washed the mud off. Sorry but i find the approach here a bit confusing. Spreading the mud and letting the garden grow through i can understand. Putting mulch on garden beds i can understand but the rest of it sounds wrong. Conserving the mud I can understand. The excess if there is a lot of it, should be sent somewhere to drain properly and so that the valuable part of it, can be redistributed in a useful form, ie topsoil or silt.
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    In the context of the following:

    The full tax on excess profits by the coal mining industry, as recommended by Treasury, should be imposed with half set aside for future natural catastrophes in Australia, Greens Leader Bob Brown said in Hobart today.

    Brown actually said this on Sunday 16th January 2011:

    "It is unfair that the cost is put on all taxpayers, not the culprits," Senator Brown said.

    "Burning coal is a major cause of global warming. This industry, which is 75% owned outside Australia, should help pay the cost of the predicted more severe and more frequent floods, droughts and bushfires in coming decades. As well, 700,000 seaside properties in Australia face rising sea levels."

    "A Goldman Sachs study found that the reduction in the mining super tax agreed by the current Labor government (the coalition opposes the mining tax) would cost Australians $35 billion in forgone revenue to 2019-20."

    "Scientists agree that current floods come from record-high temperatures of Australian oceans this season."

    "We also ask insurers to show some compassion to Queensland's flood victims, and to others who face loss as wild weather besets the country. Many people believe they have flood cover and, if not, the fine print should have been disclosed to them."


    Source: Coal barons should help pay for catastrophes

    I fully agree with Brown.

    Further to the discussion, the following was signed and released by Brown on Monday 17 January 2011:

    After the hottest and wettest year in recorded history, the seas off northern Australia are also currently warmer than ever before. This heat has led to increased evaporation and so, rainfall.

    Sceptics and defenders of the coal industry may dispute this scientific data, but they don’t. Instead, they are arguing that there should be no debate – not, at least, until some undefined time in the future when the cataclysm has passed and its injuries are behind us.

    A week after the “inland tsunami” struck the Toowoomba region, with the flood crest having passed in Brisbane, and Rockhampton beginning to recover, Australia’s newspapers are now carrying letters expressing frustration at the absence of debate on the causes of the floods across the nation and, indeed, in Brazil, Sri Lanka and Pakistan.

    Like the drought, heatwaves and bushfires, these floods are predictable calamities and worse is in store as the planet is heated by human actions.

    We may collectively choose to do nothing about the rapidly increasing of burning of coal, here and overseas, from coal being mined in Australia by wealthy corporations largely owned overseas. However, that choice should not be made without informed debate. If there is a later time better for this crucial debate to begin, let the critics name it.


    Source: The Role of Global Warming

    I agree with the above, too.
     
  15. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Further to the discussion, the evidence that Brown relies on when he releases statements such as the above is based on credible science - I wouldn't agree with him if it were not.

    For example, back in 2007, scientists confirmed that the increase in atmospheric moisture is tied to human activities.

    Anecdotally, in the days leading up to the Victorian floods we experienced unprecedented (at least in whitefella history) levels of humidity. On Saturday morning, the hygrometer hit 97% - and equal to that of Darwin!

    Believe it or not, the climate is changing - rapidly - and our activities (such as burning coal) are contributing to this observed phenomena.
     
  16. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    97% is not unusual when its raining, just before it rains or just after. In fact, its normal.

    I don't argue that climate change is afoot.

    Actually i misread what eco said about what bob brown said. So i take it back that its ridiculous that they have contributed to climate change but i do not think I would blame the floods on the mining sector. On the other hand, i think scientists say that climate change will bring with it more severe weather events. However, I still think la nina is a severe weather event that would occur anyway just as el nino is a severe weather event of a different sort. Does climate change cause la nina and el nino?

    I thnk we just need to hurry up and get over coal and other dangerous fuel systems and get onto the renewables and other clean sources. Its not happening fast enough. Next time i go to town i am buy a LED torch and putting my old acid battery thing in the cupboard. It uses too many batteries. I will tell my sister to put LED ligihts in her house. But none of that is really going to make much diffierence unfortunately.
     
  17. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    When i was a kid my Dad would always tell me if I had a cold, stay in side where it was warm because if you get wet or play in the cold its going to make your symptoms worse...

    The recent flooding is a bit like that... La Nina has caused the flooding... Human Induced Climate Change has made the symptoms worse...
     
  18. permasculptor

    permasculptor Junior Member

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    When I heard during the flood that Queensland supplies one quarter of the worlds coal I immediately thought karma. Bob Brown seems to be the only leader that will call a card a card.Go Bob!
    It seems to me that to have the influence that permaculture requires we would need massive funding as it is opposed to most commercial mindsets. The media is primarily responsible and it thrives on fear .
    How many permaculture lobbyists are there?
    Perhaps a cleverly worded petition would help?
    Love your work Janet you continue to inspire from afar.
     
  19. permup

    permup Junior Member

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    Hi Janet,

    Well, let me know if you need someone on the ground in Sydney. I am a project manager by day, so I'm sure I could help.

    Paula.
     
  20. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    .
    That's just downright nasty. Not very permie minded at all.
     

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